So-Called Dollar Discussions
New Silver-plated SCD's?
Quote from Bill Walter on March 16, 2014, 7:16 pmI'm just looking at this post for the first time. This is August 2015 and I see that the same seller, drv719, still has his plated HK409 for sale. He does not describe it as an HK409, and he does not say that it is solid silver. He just says it feels heavy. The thing is, I do not know if and when it was plated for sure. It could be solid silver, but I doubt it. There is no way of knowing when, or who plated it. If he were to sell a lot of other "rare" plated pieces, then I would be suspicious. The thing is, he is not doing himself any favors by beating around the bush. Do a specific gravity test on it for heaven sakes and be done with it. It is obviously not in very good condition either. It seems to me that if I were trying to deceive buyers with a medal that I plated, I would at least pick out a nice one. Anyway, in the past I have bought 2 pieces through major auction houses that were described as solid silver or solid gold that turned out to be plated. I also bought one that was described as plated silver but turned out to be solid silver. I have always been careful about buying "rare" plated so called dollars. I just do not know under what circumstances they were plated. I do not worry too much about counterfeits. They are out there, but usually easily distinguished. Plated pieces are sometimes a different story. You really have to inspect them closely, and even then you cannot tell for sure sometimes. Sometimes plated pieces will have a grainy matt-like surface. And if you see that graininess go down into a bagmark, then you know that it was plated after the bagmark happened. Plated pieces are usually OK with me if I know that a number of them were originally done that way. The vast majority of plated pieces are probably legitimate.
I'm just looking at this post for the first time. This is August 2015 and I see that the same seller, drv719, still has his plated HK409 for sale. He does not describe it as an HK409, and he does not say that it is solid silver. He just says it feels heavy. The thing is, I do not know if and when it was plated for sure. It could be solid silver, but I doubt it. There is no way of knowing when, or who plated it. If he were to sell a lot of other "rare" plated pieces, then I would be suspicious. The thing is, he is not doing himself any favors by beating around the bush. Do a specific gravity test on it for heaven sakes and be done with it. It is obviously not in very good condition either. It seems to me that if I were trying to deceive buyers with a medal that I plated, I would at least pick out a nice one. Anyway, in the past I have bought 2 pieces through major auction houses that were described as solid silver or solid gold that turned out to be plated. I also bought one that was described as plated silver but turned out to be solid silver. I have always been careful about buying "rare" plated so called dollars. I just do not know under what circumstances they were plated. I do not worry too much about counterfeits. They are out there, but usually easily distinguished. Plated pieces are sometimes a different story. You really have to inspect them closely, and even then you cannot tell for sure sometimes. Sometimes plated pieces will have a grainy matt-like surface. And if you see that graininess go down into a bagmark, then you know that it was plated after the bagmark happened. Plated pieces are usually OK with me if I know that a number of them were originally done that way. The vast majority of plated pieces are probably legitimate.
Quote from billycgribble on March 16, 2014, 11:08 pmThe Stockton, HK-635, silver-plated medal is an original medal and is silver-plated. I have little doubt that it was plated back in 1896. The reverse plated surface is not as well preserved as the obverse (state seal side by my obverse classification). Interestingly, I have examined a gold-plated HK-635 with the similar attribute, the plating on the reverse is not as well preserved as the obverse. The obverse has a museum number painted on it, so I passed on buying the piece. But it good confirmation that plating was done contemporaneous with their release. Whether plated before or after striking, I cannot say. I think I should also photograph a PCNS club medal as an example of plating after striking. We ran out of silver medals, so I had some bronze medals professionally silver plated. They are beautifully done. I have had some engraved. No bronze shows in the engraved lines. Very interesting.
The Stockton, HK-635, silver-plated medal is an original medal and is silver-plated. I have little doubt that it was plated back in 1896. The reverse plated surface is not as well preserved as the obverse (state seal side by my obverse classification). Interestingly, I have examined a gold-plated HK-635 with the similar attribute, the plating on the reverse is not as well preserved as the obverse. The obverse has a museum number painted on it, so I passed on buying the piece. But it good confirmation that plating was done contemporaneous with their release. Whether plated before or after striking, I cannot say. I think I should also photograph a PCNS club medal as an example of plating after striking. We ran out of silver medals, so I had some bronze medals professionally silver plated. They are beautifully done. I have had some engraved. No bronze shows in the engraved lines. Very interesting.
Quote from billycgribble on March 17, 2014, 6:29 pmThere are some new silver-plated SCD's on Ebay recently that are fakes in my opinion. I can remember seeing a HK-131 and a HK-416 and I think that there are others. If you look at the photos closely, you will see that these are circulated and then silver plated. We have all seen the real ones that show the base metal underneath the plating with very little wear. The ones that I have seen are well circulated but have no breaks in the plating. The pieces are then antiqued with a mild acid that is wiped across the surface. Look at the black toning on the surfaces of them and you will see the streaks of the action of wiping the solution on them. Look at your own medals that are known to have been issued with an antiqued finish and you will see the same effect. I have noticed several of these from the same Ebay seller. Please watch out for this and don't think that it is original.
WW-hello- Is the seller you are talking about the "Colorado Silver Exchange"?? I have an HK-131 in silver. Appears it may be silver and not silver plate. One of my criteria has been the crispness when there is a microscopic makers mark. and very fine small details when they are not crisp. The HK-416 that I looked at but passed on I saw no antiqueing or black marks. Are they changing the black toning to blue to disguise their work? Bill H-an opinion??? Did you get the Native Sons Stockton piece yet? The crispness of the L H Moise made me think it was either silver or if plated was done before struck. Same with the HK-131. Guess I'll send the piece to your upcoming April meeting and let 20 of you professionals deem if it is a forgery.
There are some new silver-plated SCD's on Ebay recently that are fakes in my opinion. I can remember seeing a HK-131 and a HK-416 and I think that there are others. If you look at the photos closely, you will see that these are circulated and then silver plated. We have all seen the real ones that show the base metal underneath the plating with very little wear. The ones that I have seen are well circulated but have no breaks in the plating. The pieces are then antiqued with a mild acid that is wiped across the surface. Look at the black toning on the surfaces of them and you will see the streaks of the action of wiping the solution on them. Look at your own medals that are known to have been issued with an antiqued finish and you will see the same effect. I have noticed several of these from the same Ebay seller. Please watch out for this and don't think that it is original.
WW-hello- Is the seller you are talking about the "Colorado Silver Exchange"?? I have an HK-131 in silver. Appears it may be silver and not silver plate. One of my criteria has been the crispness when there is a microscopic makers mark. and very fine small details when they are not crisp. The HK-416 that I looked at but passed on I saw no antiqueing or black marks. Are they changing the black toning to blue to disguise their work? Bill H-an opinion??? Did you get the Native Sons Stockton piece yet? The crispness of the L H Moise made me think it was either silver or if plated was done before struck. Same with the HK-131. Guess I'll send the piece to your upcoming April meeting and let 20 of you professionals deem if it is a forgery.
Quote from Bill Walter on March 22, 2014, 4:06 pmThere are some new silver-plated SCD's on Ebay recently that are fakes in my opinion. I can remember seeing a HK-131 and a HK-416 and I think that there are others. If you look at the photos closely, you will see that these are circulated and then silver plated. We have all seen the real ones that show the base metal underneath the plating with very little wear. The ones that I have seen are well circulated but have no breaks in the plating. The pieces are then antiqued with a mild acid that is wiped across the surface. Look at the black toning on the surfaces of them and you will see the streaks of the action of wiping the solution on them. Look at your own medals that are known to have been issued with an antiqued finish and you will see the same effect. I have noticed several of these from the same Ebay seller. Please watch out for this and don't think that it is original.
There are some new silver-plated SCD's on Ebay recently that are fakes in my opinion. I can remember seeing a HK-131 and a HK-416 and I think that there are others. If you look at the photos closely, you will see that these are circulated and then silver plated. We have all seen the real ones that show the base metal underneath the plating with very little wear. The ones that I have seen are well circulated but have no breaks in the plating. The pieces are then antiqued with a mild acid that is wiped across the surface. Look at the black toning on the surfaces of them and you will see the streaks of the action of wiping the solution on them. Look at your own medals that are known to have been issued with an antiqued finish and you will see the same effect. I have noticed several of these from the same Ebay seller. Please watch out for this and don't think that it is original.
Quote from billycgribble on March 27, 2014, 10:12 pmThe Stockton, HK-635, silver-plated medal is an original medal and is silver-plated. I have little doubt that it was plated back in 1896. The reverse plated surface is not as well preserved as the obverse (state seal side by my obverse classification). Interestingly, I have examined a gold-plated HK-635 with the similar attribute, the plating on the reverse is not as well preserved as the obverse. The obverse has a museum number painted on it, so I passed on buying the piece. But it good confirmation that plating was done contemporaneous with their release. Whether plated before or after striking, I cannot say. I think I should also photograph a PCNS club medal as an example of plating after striking. We ran out of silver medals, so I had some bronze medals professionally silver plated. They are beautifully done. I have had some engraved. No bronze shows in the engraved lines. Very interesting.
Bill-that is certainly good to hear. This token on which I was the obvious under bidder fit four of my must have categories for my collecting: 1. Modified State Seal piece. 2. Moise piece. 3. Unlisted metal variety of listed So Called. 4. Native Sons of Golden West piece. I am very much looking forward to seeing it. Guess I'll just post a picture of the HK-131 silver under fact or fiction authentic or counterfeit and let everyone voice their opinion. What has really got me thinking is your comment about pieces that you had silver plated and then had engraved without any of the underlying metal base showing thru. Hadn't considered that into the process previously.
The Stockton, HK-635, silver-plated medal is an original medal and is silver-plated. I have little doubt that it was plated back in 1896. The reverse plated surface is not as well preserved as the obverse (state seal side by my obverse classification). Interestingly, I have examined a gold-plated HK-635 with the similar attribute, the plating on the reverse is not as well preserved as the obverse. The obverse has a museum number painted on it, so I passed on buying the piece. But it good confirmation that plating was done contemporaneous with their release. Whether plated before or after striking, I cannot say. I think I should also photograph a PCNS club medal as an example of plating after striking. We ran out of silver medals, so I had some bronze medals professionally silver plated. They are beautifully done. I have had some engraved. No bronze shows in the engraved lines. Very interesting.
Bill-that is certainly good to hear. This token on which I was the obvious under bidder fit four of my must have categories for my collecting: 1. Modified State Seal piece. 2. Moise piece. 3. Unlisted metal variety of listed So Called. 4. Native Sons of Golden West piece. I am very much looking forward to seeing it. Guess I'll just post a picture of the HK-131 silver under fact or fiction authentic or counterfeit and let everyone voice their opinion. What has really got me thinking is your comment about pieces that you had silver plated and then had engraved without any of the underlying metal base showing thru. Hadn't considered that into the process previously.
Quote from libertycap on August 9, 2014, 5:13 amI didn't mean to cause such a problem here. To Bill Gribble, Yes that is the dealer. I purchased the HK-416 that they offered and I was sure that it was plated last month and antiqued. I would like to see your 131 in silver and I will be at the April meeting. I didn't mean that all of the others are suspect but I was concerned about those. I only wanted to alert the readers to be careful about a piece being altered.
I didn't mean to cause such a problem here. To Bill Gribble, Yes that is the dealer. I purchased the HK-416 that they offered and I was sure that it was plated last month and antiqued. I would like to see your 131 in silver and I will be at the April meeting. I didn't mean that all of the others are suspect but I was concerned about those. I only wanted to alert the readers to be careful about a piece being altered.
Quote from billycgribble on January 27, 2015, 10:24 amI didn't mean to cause such a problem here. To Bill Gribble, Yes that is the dealer. I purchased the HK-416 that they offered and I was sure that it was plated last month and antiqued. I would like to see your 131 in silver and I will be at the April meeting. I didn't mean that all of the others are suspect but I was concerned about those. I only wanted to alert the readers to be careful about a piece being altered.
WW-no don't get the wrong idea-You are doing what I do and every serious so called collector does and that is share information. Your post just said watch out and said to me find out if I've been duped. You are 100% right and I thank you for it. Last thing I want to do is sell an unlisted silver plated piece in the future and have it come back to haunt me. Now since nothing this dealer has done so far is illegal what are we going to do about all these fake pieces he is putting on the market? Going to create a really ugly mess 3yrs to 10 years in the future. Our favorite dealer has now just happened to have come across an worn HK-896 unlisted silver piece and posted it. Really going to create a stir because on top of being unlisted it is also a unique unlisted variety that lacks the microscopic 'patent applied for' on the bottom of the reverse die. This makes it an altered piece. Have you noticed he makes no attribution at all to listed publications (including so called dollar book). He makes no claim what so ever to it being any type of silver piece and the word silver appears no where in the listing. These pieces he is actually sellling cheaply under buy it now are going to create a future mess-- I thank you again for getting me clued in properly===Billy C. Gribble
I didn't mean to cause such a problem here. To Bill Gribble, Yes that is the dealer. I purchased the HK-416 that they offered and I was sure that it was plated last month and antiqued. I would like to see your 131 in silver and I will be at the April meeting. I didn't mean that all of the others are suspect but I was concerned about those. I only wanted to alert the readers to be careful about a piece being altered.
WW-no don't get the wrong idea-You are doing what I do and every serious so called collector does and that is share information. Your post just said watch out and said to me find out if I've been duped. You are 100% right and I thank you for it. Last thing I want to do is sell an unlisted silver plated piece in the future and have it come back to haunt me. Now since nothing this dealer has done so far is illegal what are we going to do about all these fake pieces he is putting on the market? Going to create a really ugly mess 3yrs to 10 years in the future. Our favorite dealer has now just happened to have come across an worn HK-896 unlisted silver piece and posted it. Really going to create a stir because on top of being unlisted it is also a unique unlisted variety that lacks the microscopic 'patent applied for' on the bottom of the reverse die. This makes it an altered piece. Have you noticed he makes no attribution at all to listed publications (including so called dollar book). He makes no claim what so ever to it being any type of silver piece and the word silver appears no where in the listing. These pieces he is actually sellling cheaply under buy it now are going to create a future mess-- I thank you again for getting me clued in properly===Billy C. Gribble
Quote from jraymond on August 17, 2015, 2:46 pm****ALERT***** our Colorado Silver Exchange Seller that Silver Plates circulated SCD's is still doing so but has changed his Seller name todrv719. His latest plating is an HK-409.
****ALERT***** our Colorado Silver Exchange Seller that Silver Plates circulated SCD's is still doing so but has changed his Seller name todrv719. His latest plating is an HK-409.