So-Called Dollar Discussions
William Warner and Brother, Philadelphia
Quote from JWRaymond on December 13, 2023, 9:44 pmOver the past few years I have had time to research some late nineteenth century so called dollars. One medal manufacturing business that piqued my interest was “William Warner and Brother” of Philadelphia. Everything that I found, I found on the internet. But internet searching, although amazing, still leaves many questions unanswered, and some of what I found is puzzling.
The two brothers were William H Warner and Charles K Warner of Philadelphia. At the time it appears that some men with the Warner last name would use their middle initial to help distinguish themselves from others with the same last name. In fact, in Philadelphia the Warner name was possibly even more common than elsewhere. There is even a book titled “The Warners of Philadelphia” describing some of the earliest citizens of Philadelphia. And even with the use of the middle initial, there appears to sometimes be two men with exactly the same Warner name, including the middle initial. Thus, what I have found is not definitive, but I thought I would share it anyway.
A fellow collector, Bob Jesinger, has also researched the Warner business and it’s medals. You can view a video that he did at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_zL4tZtDIs. One thing that we both found puzzling was not being able to track down William H Warner. Charles K Warner was easier to track down. Charles appears to have been in business as both a coin dealer and as an issuer of store cards during and after the civil war, and was preceded by his father John Warner.
At any rate the most puzzling thing that I found was as follows:
This is an article from the August 1891 “Horological Review” describing the “out of town buyers that were registered in New York during the past week”. One of the entries reads as follows: “W. R. Warner (W. H. Warner & Bro.). Philadelphia, Pa., Metropolitan H.;”. The next month, September 1891, the following entry for a similar out of town buying event, reads: “W. R. Warner, (Wm. H. Warner & Bro.) Philadelphia, Pa., Metropole H.;”. The entries are virtually the same except the hotels are different, one being the Metropolitan, the other being the Metropole. What is striking is the use of the letter “R” for a middle initial. It is unlikely a misprint.
So who was this W. R. Warner, and does the “W” stand for William? Well, at this point I do not know. As it turns out, there was a William R Warner at the time who was the wealthiest Warner in Philadelphia. He was a druggist who’s business eventually united with Lambert to form Warner-Lambert. Warner-Lambert would eventually become Pfizer. But is this the same W. R. “Warner” of “Wm. H. Warner & Bro”? Unfortunately I also found a number of other William R Warner newspaper entries that may or may not have been the William R Warner the druggist. One in particular was definitely not him, from an August 1882 newspaper article that reads as follows: “Ridgway Park was the scene of a remarkable drowning case last night, the victim being William R Warner, 35 years old, residing at 1848 Camac street, whose life was extinguished in a mere puddle of water. The accident is said to have been the result of Warner’s unfortunate overindulgence in strong drink.”
So we see here the difficulties in trying figure out the various Warners. The same may or may not also apply to the following article with regard to William H. Warner - from a newspaper article dated Sept 12, 1885: “William H. Warner pleaded guilty to four bills of indictment, charging him with the larceny of a gold watch, valued at $59, the property of Simon Bros..; two gold watches, valued at $90…….” The article goes on to describe a number of other stolen items, including jewelry, by a William H. Warner.
What is interesting about this larceny indictment is that it involves watches and jewelry. William Warner & Brother were also involved in the jewelry business as well as minting medals. In fact, the entire area of Philadelphia that William Warner & Brother were located was often referred to as the Jewelry District of Philadelphia. The US Mint, Warner & Bother, and two other medal minters, John Diehl and Peter Krider, were all located close to each other on Chester Street in Philadelphia in the mid 1880s. Warner & Brother appears to have been only two blocks from the US Mint. John Diehl and Peter Krider were farther away down the street.
Another article that I found was as follows, and this article is definitely the William R. Warner, the druggist. It can be verified by the address in the article which is where he lived: The article from December 19, 1887 describes a robbery of $2,000 in jewelry at the residence of William R Warner. So here we go again with the jewelry, but of course it could easily all be coincidence.
What is interesting though is the obvious ramping up of the William H. Warner & Brother business in 1883. Prior to that time, the Warner business appears to have been an on and off affair dating all the way back to 1826. Their father, John Warner, was also in the business. But in 1883 the business obviously really took off. There are numerous articles in various publications describing numerous medals made by the firm during and after 1883, but not before. Is it possible that William R Warner the druggist was responsible for helping to bankroll the business? At this point, all conjecture again. I do not know.
Another possibility is that William R Warner was the real given name of William H Warner, and that he may have changed his middle initial so as to not be confused with William R Warner the druggist. That does not seem likely to me, but back then it was much easier to change one’s name or to use aliases than it is today.
One newspaper entry that appears to contradict an entry in Baker’s book of Washington medals is the following from “Steigerwalt’s Coin Journal” January 1884. It states: “Wm. H. Warner & Bro., 1123 Chestnut Street, Philadelphia, have sent us, since our last issue, several of their latest medals”. One of them was described as follows: “Size 22, has the head of Washington facing to right, coat of arms in field, below on label, “Exitus acta probat.” Reverse, beautiful coat of arms, composed of flags, cannons, ect. Legend, “Evacuation Day Centennial. 1783. Nov. 25. 1883. City Of New York”. This description describes Baker 457, HK-125a. However in Baker, Baker 457 is described by the author as being made by George Morgan and John Diehl. George Morgan’s name is engraved on to the lower edge of the bust, so obviously he must have been the engraver, but it appears that William Warner was the publisher, not John Diehl. Am I missing something here? Also, the outside obverse olive-dot beading is typical of a few early William Warner medals(look at HK-596).
I found two official state documents that name both Willam H. Warner & Brother, and Peter Krider as the medalists that were commissioned by the Iowa State Agricultural Society in 1887 and again by the Nebraska State Board of Agriculture in 1890. No other medal minters were mentioned in the documents. This suggests that Warner and Krider were probably the two main “go to” private minters in the United States in the mid 1880s, early 1890s. As an interesting side note not related to numismatics, the Annual Report of the Iowa State Agricultural Society for 1887 is a very long, but sometimes an interesting read. There is a reference to the Almighty in places with a few short poems. One interesting statistic for the year is the number of farm animals in the state killed by “dogs”. Interesting that they used the word “dogs”, not wolves. The three William Warner medals that were minted for the 1890 Nebraska State Board of Agriculture are SH-5-81, SH 5-82, and SH 5-83 in Jeff Shevlin and Bill Hyder’s book “So Called Dollars Volume 1: United States Expositions”.
Also, the Warner business appears to have had a sense of humor(?): From an add in the January 1900 issue of the Numismatist: “PERHAPS Your wife’s mother is dead? We strike all sorts of medals for all sorts of events. Send for estimates to Wm. H. Warner & Bro. 424 N. 9th St., Philadelphia, Pa.”. A gutsy add….lol...
Anyway, that’s it for now. Not definitive in places, but interesting what you can find out if you search. There are more older publications not on the internet than those that are. Maybe someday more information will come to light.
Over the past few years I have had time to research some late nineteenth century so called dollars. One medal manufacturing business that piqued my interest was “William Warner and Brother” of Philadelphia. Everything that I found, I found on the internet. But internet searching, although amazing, still leaves many questions unanswered, and some of what I found is puzzling.
The two brothers were William H Warner and Charles K Warner of Philadelphia. At the time it appears that some men with the Warner last name would use their middle initial to help distinguish themselves from others with the same last name. In fact, in Philadelphia the Warner name was possibly even more common than elsewhere. There is even a book titled “The Warners of Philadelphia” describing some of the earliest citizens of Philadelphia. And even with the use of the middle initial, there appears to sometimes be two men with exactly the same Warner name, including the middle initial. Thus, what I have found is not definitive, but I thought I would share it anyway.
A fellow collector, Bob Jesinger, has also researched the Warner business and it’s medals. You can view a video that he did at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_zL4tZtDIs. One thing that we both found puzzling was not being able to track down William H Warner. Charles K Warner was easier to track down. Charles appears to have been in business as both a coin dealer and as an issuer of store cards during and after the civil war, and was preceded by his father John Warner.
At any rate the most puzzling thing that I found was as follows:
This is an article from the August 1891 “Horological Review” describing the “out of town buyers that were registered in New York during the past week”. One of the entries reads as follows: “W. R. Warner (W. H. Warner & Bro.). Philadelphia, Pa., Metropolitan H.;”. The next month, September 1891, the following entry for a similar out of town buying event, reads: “W. R. Warner, (Wm. H. Warner & Bro.) Philadelphia, Pa., Metropole H.;”. The entries are virtually the same except the hotels are different, one being the Metropolitan, the other being the Metropole. What is striking is the use of the letter “R” for a middle initial. It is unlikely a misprint.
So who was this W. R. Warner, and does the “W” stand for William? Well, at this point I do not know. As it turns out, there was a William R Warner at the time who was the wealthiest Warner in Philadelphia. He was a druggist who’s business eventually united with Lambert to form Warner-Lambert. Warner-Lambert would eventually become Pfizer. But is this the same W. R. “Warner” of “Wm. H. Warner & Bro”? Unfortunately I also found a number of other William R Warner newspaper entries that may or may not have been the William R Warner the druggist. One in particular was definitely not him, from an August 1882 newspaper article that reads as follows: “Ridgway Park was the scene of a remarkable drowning case last night, the victim being William R Warner, 35 years old, residing at 1848 Camac street, whose life was extinguished in a mere puddle of water. The accident is said to have been the result of Warner’s unfortunate overindulgence in strong drink.”
So we see here the difficulties in trying figure out the various Warners. The same may or may not also apply to the following article with regard to William H. Warner - from a newspaper article dated Sept 12, 1885: “William H. Warner pleaded guilty to four bills of indictment, charging him with the larceny of a gold watch, valued at $59, the property of Simon Bros..; two gold watches, valued at $90…….” The article goes on to describe a number of other stolen items, including jewelry, by a William H. Warner.
What is interesting about this larceny indictment is that it involves watches and jewelry. William Warner & Brother were also involved in the jewelry business as well as minting medals. In fact, the entire area of Philadelphia that William Warner & Brother were located was often referred to as the Jewelry District of Philadelphia. The US Mint, Warner & Bother, and two other medal minters, John Diehl and Peter Krider, were all located close to each other on Chester Street in Philadelphia in the mid 1880s. Warner & Brother appears to have been only two blocks from the US Mint. John Diehl and Peter Krider were farther away down the street.
Another article that I found was as follows, and this article is definitely the William R. Warner, the druggist. It can be verified by the address in the article which is where he lived: The article from December 19, 1887 describes a robbery of $2,000 in jewelry at the residence of William R Warner. So here we go again with the jewelry, but of course it could easily all be coincidence.
What is interesting though is the obvious ramping up of the William H. Warner & Brother business in 1883. Prior to that time, the Warner business appears to have been an on and off affair dating all the way back to 1826. Their father, John Warner, was also in the business. But in 1883 the business obviously really took off. There are numerous articles in various publications describing numerous medals made by the firm during and after 1883, but not before. Is it possible that William R Warner the druggist was responsible for helping to bankroll the business? At this point, all conjecture again. I do not know.
Another possibility is that William R Warner was the real given name of William H Warner, and that he may have changed his middle initial so as to not be confused with William R Warner the druggist. That does not seem likely to me, but back then it was much easier to change one’s name or to use aliases than it is today.
One newspaper entry that appears to contradict an entry in Baker’s book of Washington medals is the following from “Steigerwalt’s Coin Journal” January 1884. It states: “Wm. H. Warner & Bro., 1123 Chestnut Street, Philadelphia, have sent us, since our last issue, several of their latest medals”. One of them was described as follows: “Size 22, has the head of Washington facing to right, coat of arms in field, below on label, “Exitus acta probat.” Reverse, beautiful coat of arms, composed of flags, cannons, ect. Legend, “Evacuation Day Centennial. 1783. Nov. 25. 1883. City Of New York”. This description describes Baker 457, HK-125a. However in Baker, Baker 457 is described by the author as being made by George Morgan and John Diehl. George Morgan’s name is engraved on to the lower edge of the bust, so obviously he must have been the engraver, but it appears that William Warner was the publisher, not John Diehl. Am I missing something here? Also, the outside obverse olive-dot beading is typical of a few early William Warner medals(look at HK-596).
I found two official state documents that name both Willam H. Warner & Brother, and Peter Krider as the medalists that were commissioned by the Iowa State Agricultural Society in 1887 and again by the Nebraska State Board of Agriculture in 1890. No other medal minters were mentioned in the documents. This suggests that Warner and Krider were probably the two main “go to” private minters in the United States in the mid 1880s, early 1890s. As an interesting side note not related to numismatics, the Annual Report of the Iowa State Agricultural Society for 1887 is a very long, but sometimes an interesting read. There is a reference to the Almighty in places with a few short poems. One interesting statistic for the year is the number of farm animals in the state killed by “dogs”. Interesting that they used the word “dogs”, not wolves. The three William Warner medals that were minted for the 1890 Nebraska State Board of Agriculture are SH-5-81, SH 5-82, and SH 5-83 in Jeff Shevlin and Bill Hyder’s book “So Called Dollars Volume 1: United States Expositions”.
Also, the Warner business appears to have had a sense of humor(?): From an add in the January 1900 issue of the Numismatist: “PERHAPS Your wife’s mother is dead? We strike all sorts of medals for all sorts of events. Send for estimates to Wm. H. Warner & Bro. 424 N. 9th St., Philadelphia, Pa.”. A gutsy add….lol...
Anyway, that’s it for now. Not definitive in places, but interesting what you can find out if you search. There are more older publications not on the internet than those that are. Maybe someday more information will come to light.